Dijkgraaf at UvA: “Do not combine the discussion on international students with a general one on migration”

After the rather tumultuous interview with NATO military expert Rob Bauer, traditionally held in the hall of the E-building on the REC, the Chesterfield for the interview with Robbert Dijkgraaf was moved to De Brug. This time, the event was only accessible with a free ticket and an ID, perhaps to avoid protesters and other activists. Whether this was the case is not known, but the interview with Dijkgraaf went smoothly. The audience was polite, no one interrupted, and the questions from the attendees were amicable. The topic of the interview was “utopian education.”
 
Trilemma
Whether a good education is indeed a utopia was initially left unanswered. But it was clear that there are a lot of challenges that were discussed during the interview: accessibility, inequality of opportunity, mental health, social safety, and internationalization. The annual State of Education report examining the state of Dutch education came out this week.
“The problems identified are mainly in basic (read: primary) education,” said Dijkgraaf. Further education - including universities - is not doing badly in the Netherlands, according to him.
 
“There is regular talk about the ‘trilemma’ of education: quality, accessibility, and connection to society. It is often assumed that you cannot do something about all three of these issues,” Dijkgraaf said. But he says you can, unlike in America where the minister worked for a long time. “Many good American universities deserve a resounding failing grade when it comes to accessibility. I think we in the Netherlands know how to strike a good balance.”
 
Obstacle course
The mental health of adolescents and young adults is under pressure, another problem frequently identified at universities. “General performance pressure” is the main cause, according to the minister. “Life has become a kind of obstacle course.” Key to reducing that pressure, according to Dijkgraaf, is in any case “that everyone is in the right place.” Learning all kinds of subjects is fine and good. “But just as important is learning to deal with stress, challenges, and changes. These are called soft skills, but they are actually rock-solid because they are useful throughout life.”
 
Hierarchical house
In discussing social safety, the minister wondered aloud whether we as universities provide a safe social environment. By no means does this succeed always and everywhere, as was recently revealed at the Delft University of Technology. “Academic establishments are full of hierarchical relationships. This means you can’t always feel safe, even though you should. You have to be allowed to feel vulnerable. Everyone in a managerial position should be vigilant about the topic of social safety.” Meanwhile, even at the UvA, work on this is in full swing. “But there is sometimes still a big gap between what we say we are doing on paper and the reality. There is still a lot to do.” Asked what he thinks of the so-called “banga lists” that recently resurfaced in Utrecht, he said, “Haven’t we learned anything by now? This kind of behavior really cannot continue.”
 
Unlucky generation
In the fairly well-filled room were quite a few students from the so-called “unlucky generation.” With no scholarship, they had to pay for their studies with loans and are faced with large debts. At the same time, they are now having to watch as the youngest generation of students has once again received a scholarship. Whether this unlucky generation will receive anything extra in compensation depends on politics. “I am waiting for an indication from the House of Representatives, but I think the decision will be made by a new cabinet.”
 
Internationalization
Hotly debated at universities is the internationalization of the student population, which is now hitting its limits. According to many university administrators, it can no longer be handled properly because it has caused the number of students to grow exponentially. The minister said he is “proud” of the Netherlands “as a top destination for international students.” He also sees the problems, while simultaneously warning not to combine the discussion about internationals “with the general discussion about migration. And looking at myself: When I was at university, I never saw an international student. Now I do, and that’s a plus.”
 
His bill, Internationalization in Balance, has yet to pass both houses of parliament but would place too much weight on the “Dutchification” of degree programs. The minister disagrees with that assessment and contested it again this afternoon. “We must continue to welcome international students and set up hybrid programs with Dutch as well as English tracks which can be capped separately.” Incidentally, the Council of State gave its blessing to the bill this week.
 
Polarization
The conversation with the minister took place shortly after yet another pro-Palestine demonstration took place elsewhere on the same campus, Roeter Island. The minister said he was “concerned” about polarization in society and thus also at educational institutions. To do something about that is “a huge task” he said. And it involves “enormous dilemmas.” On the one hand, administrators must guarantee “a safe and normative” culture, but at the same time, there must also be “an open debate where we can learn from each other.” Navigating between the two is “damned difficult,” according to Dijkgraaf. “We must keep the discussion going and share positive examples.”